{"id":1522,"date":"2019-01-26T00:43:41","date_gmt":"2019-01-26T00:43:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=1522"},"modified":"2025-04-21T15:04:18","modified_gmt":"2025-04-21T22:04:18","slug":"episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 26: Interview with Ryan Carson, Founder + CEO of Treehouse"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe width=\"1400\" height=\"788\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/qm_TyEKxfhg?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-as-the-founder-of-a-company-that-s-helped-850-000-people-learn-to-code-ryan-talks-about-the-value-of-trust-as-a-leader\">As the founder of a company that\u2019s helped 850,000 people learn to code, Ryan talks about the value of trust as a leader\u200a.<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Every two weeks as part of&nbsp;<\/em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"http:\/\/theheartbeat.news\/\" target=\"_blank\"><em>The <\/em><\/a><em><a href=\"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" aria-label=\"Heartbeat (opens in a new tab)\">Heartbeat<\/a>&nbsp;, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect. This week, I interviewed&nbsp;<\/em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ryancarson\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Ryan Carson<\/em><\/a><em>, Founder and CEO of&nbsp;<\/em><a rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" href=\"https:\/\/teamtreehouse.com\/\" target=\"_blank\"><em>Treehouse<\/em><\/a><em>. Watch &amp; read what he has to say here\u2026<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Hi everyone, I\u2019m\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/clairelew.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Claire Lew<\/a>, and I\u2019m the CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/?utm_source=blog&amp;utm_medium=post&amp;utm_campaign=heartbeat-podcast\">Canopy<\/a> (formerly Know Your Team\/Know Your Company) and I am so excited and honored to have a really special guest today on the heartbeat. I have\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ryancarson\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Ryan Carson<\/a>, who is the founder and CEO of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/teamtreehouse.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Treehouse<\/a>, which I\u2019m sure if you\u2019re like me, you\u2019ve definitely used if you\u2019ve tried to learn how to code or dabbled around learning to be more technical, you\u2019ve definitely checked out Treehouse. But I\u2019ve been a big fan of Ryan\u2019s for a while. I believe we met at a conference a few years ago, in New York\u200a\u2014\u200a<a href=\"https:\/\/99u.adobe.com\/videos\/53977\/ryan-carson-begin-with-the-end-in-mind\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">99U<\/a>\u200a\u2014\u200awhich we both spoke at, and that was super rad. I\u2019ve been most impressed recently with your efforts around both, just really working to help retain and build up more diverse and inclusive talent in tech. I think that\u2019s really cool, and thanks so much for being here, Ryan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Thanks for having me. I\u2019m excited to chat. I love what you\u2019ve built, and I\u2019m impressed with you as an entrepreneur and as a person, so it\u2019s always fun to chat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I will take that. Thank you. But I\u2019m here to, well, I\u2019m here to pick your brain though today, Ryan. I\u2019ve got this one question that I\u2019ve been asking leaders that I admire, and it is what\u2019s something you wish you would have learned earlier as a leader?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Oh boy, there is a lot. Can I have 20 answers?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yeah, you could probably write some books about this one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/2dce0-1fzjizs_rfcfnepxzeis_hw.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>The most important thing I\u2019ve learned is I needed to build trust, and trust unlocks the ability to be successful.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>So let me explain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I built Treehouse from scratch. It was an idea my wife and I had because we\u2019re extremely passionate about empowering people with education. So I got a computer science degree, then I got a job, and then I realized the system was broken, and a lot of people, millions of people were getting hurt by that system. And so we thought, \u201cLet\u2019s change it.\u201d So like most people, had an idea, didn\u2019t know how to do it and just started trying, and ended up a right idea at the right time. So we grew and we had success early, and then we had many years of hardship and success, then it got interesting.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>But I always thought you could just be kind of charismatic, and that\u2019s what you needed as a leader, and it turns out that\u2019s not true. So people kind of don\u2019t care about charisma in their leaders, they want someone they can trust. And then as soon as you trust someone, then you can work really hard, and be really effective and be really passionate about what you do. But if you don\u2019t have that basic level of trust, everything slows down to just like wading through molasses.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan: And so it kinda paid that price because I thought, \u201cYeah, I just need to tell everybody where we\u2019re going and be charismatic about it and everything will work out.\u201d And it turns out that\u2019s not true. So trust is absolutely everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I love that answer because I think it is instinctive for many leaders, \u201cOh yeah, I need to build trust.\u201d But what you really made a clear delineation between Ryan is trust is not the charisma.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, it\u2019s totally different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Talk to me a little bit about that. Like when you, first of all, what is trust? Like how do you, how do you build it? Because if it\u2019s different than charisma, because I think some people think, \u201cWell, trust is being friendly.\u201d It\u2019s sharing hobbies with people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Being liked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Exactly, it\u2019s being liked, it\u2019s making jokes. Isn\u2019t that charisma? Isn\u2019t that actually how you build trust. Tell me in your mind then, how are they different?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Okay. So we have 80 employees now, and as we grew, what happened is, what was in my mind wasn\u2019t being communicated to everybody in depth enough. So I knew exactly where we\u2019re going and why we\u2019re doing it, and so I just want to get there as fast as we could. And so it ended up kind of saying, \u201cDo this thing,\u201d and people are sort of going, \u201cI don\u2019t understand why, but I\u2019ll do it, but I don\u2019t understand why.\u201d And then you start to break down their trust in you, and then it doesn\u2019t work to just say, \u201cWe\u2019ll do it,\u201d because I don\u2019t have time to explain why. And so what I learned trust is, and this basically is the Franklin Covey model. There\u2019s a book called&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/SPEED-TRUST-Thing-Changes-Everything\/dp\/1416549005\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Speed of Trust<\/a>, which I highly recommend.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/2dbca-13umvscwgdpyv5u6frrgo0a.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>And in it turns out it\u2019s kind of funny. It\u2019s actually the first dysfunction of a team that\u2019s talked about in the five major dysfunctions of a team, which I didn\u2019t learn that until Saturday. So I was like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m glad we worked on trust because it turns out to be the major dysfunction in teams.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it turns out trust is a tree. So imagine a tree with roots, trunk, branches and leaves. And the first part of trust is integrity. Like, do you basically believe this person has integrity? At just a core level, are they aa trustworthy person? And if you just don\u2019t think that this person has any integrity, you\u2019ll never be able to move beyond that. But most of the time, you\u2019re at work, and you\u2019re like, \u201cI think this person has basic integrity, I don\u2019t know them super well, but it seems like they\u2019re a reasonably normal person.\u201d So that\u2019s usually pretty straightforward. If you, if people don\u2019t think your basic integrity, you got to work on that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Step one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s pretty important. So once you believe someone has integrity, then you can move up the tree to the trunk. And the next, the trunk is intent. So do you understand what this person is intending to do? So not just what they\u2019re telling you to do, but why they\u2019re telling you to do it. So maybe you\u2019re having a marketing session and someone says like, \u201cI think we should launch a podcast.\u201d And if you don\u2019t know their intention is to change your overall goal numbers, you think that they are passionate about podcasts, and that\u2019s why they\u2019re saying they should do a podcast. Then you don\u2019t understand their intention, and then you start to not be able to trust like, \u201cWell, I don\u2019t like podcasts, I don\u2019t like the idea and so on,\u201d and then your trust breaks down. It\u2019s like, oh man. Their intent was, which is your intent is to increase your goal number. You\u2019re on the same page. You have the same intention.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>So you have to over-communicate. That\u2019s the way you solve for that. This is what I\u2019m intending to do, this is why I\u2019m doing it, and it feels really painful to a leader like, \u201cOh my God, I have to say this again? Why are we doing this thing?\u201d And it turns out, yeah, you do, because people can\u2019t read your\u00a0mind.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Surprise!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Then you have to say it a lot of times because maybe you know their kid broke their leg over the weekend and they couldn\u2019t hear that announcement, or maybe they\u2019re going through a divorce or maybe, this is real stuff people are going through, and just because you say it in an all hands meeting, or have an email doesn\u2019t mean they heard it. So intention. So that\u2019s just about usually communicating clearly a lot, and saying the same thing over and over again. So you\u2019ve got roots which is integrity, trunk, which is intention.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Once you build those two things, then you can move on to the branches, and the branches are capability. So you have to believe that someone actually has the tools to deliver results. So as a CEO, I could have integrity, people can understand my intentions, but if people say, \u201cRyan\u2019s never been a CEO before,\u201d I don\u2019t know if he has the tools to actually be a good CEO. I don\u2019t know if he has the capability, or the knowledge. So you actually have to have the knowledge, how to solve the problem, or demonstrate that you can get it very quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that\u2019s usually a skill thing, that\u2019s a training thing, that\u2019s an experience thing, you can get all those things. So once you have capability, then ultimately, you have to deliver results, and that is the leaves of the tree. So ultimately, a tree is no good if it\u2019s just dead bark. There actually has to be leaves on it, there has to be results. So in the end, after all this work, eventually our results achieved, and then it\u2019s like a loop. Then you just have to keep reinforcing the tree and growing the tree, and you got to continue to have integrity. You\u2019ve got to continue to communicate your intention. You have to continue to learn and get better, and then you have to continue to deliver results.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Over time, like no one expects you to do all that immediately.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>But if you\u2019re on that journey and you\u2019re communicating where you\u2019re at in the journey, then you can build real trust. And this has changed my life. I can\u2019t express the difference in my work at Treehouse before building trust and after. It has just been a game\u00a0changer.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: What\u2019s an example? Give me. I\u2019m like, \u201cChange your life?\u201d That\u2019s bold words, Ryan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, I mean it. So a good example is I had a new person report to me, they were reporting to somebody else, and being the CEO sometimes, reporting to the CEO can be hard on people because you have tons of power, you often will be kind of blunt. There\u2019s kind of a style that\u2019s typical of CEOs, and it\u2019s hard for non-execs to report to somebody like that. And so I had done some damage to the relationship because I was too brazen about something, or I was just too kind of \u201cRyan\u201d. And so when that person\u2019s reporting to me, I said, \u201cI want to, I want to intentionally build trust with you. I feel like maybe some of that trust broke down, and I want to be very intentional about building it back up. So, are you interested in doing that?\u201d And they said, \u201cYes.\u201d And then we started going through the behaviors of trust. So basically I said, \u201cOkay, what behaviors are important to you to help me build trust with you?\u201d And this book has a framework for this and again, it\u2019s not some silver bullet, but it\u2019s a, it\u2019s a way to attack it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/adb58-1twkuwnkqy8e4ddm2lm69_a.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: And so the framework\u2019s pretty straightforward. I think there\u2019s like 13, 14 behaviors of trust, and there\u2019s actually, it\u2019s so cool, it\u2019s like a playbook. If you want to build trust, exhibit behaviors one, three, eight and 10. Right. And if you want to repair trust, do behaviors two, four, 10 and 12. And so we literally pull up the cards and say, \u201cOkay, I want to demonstrate these behaviors to you, I\u2019m going to work on that.\u201d And then it\u2019s just everything becomes clear. They understand my intention. Hopefully they believe I have integrity, and then we\u2019re building that tree again and it does take time. But actually not that long. I\u2019ve been working with this person now for less than a month, and already we are literally on the phone this morning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I was like, \u201cHow do you feel like we\u2019re doing, building that trust?\u201d, and they said, \u201cReally good.\u201d So I think it goes to show work relationships can be wonderful, and that doesn\u2019t mean you have to be friends and love each other. You just have to have this trust, and then you can have an effective, really satisfying relationship.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Definitely. So many different pieces I want to ask questions about you, Ryan. The first is this framework that you talk about which is really or popularized by the Speed of Trust book. I\u2019ve always found it fascinating because it almost divides trust into two different areas. So there\u2019s one idea about trust being about character, so I have to believe you\u2019re a good person, I have to believe that your motives are pure, that\u2019s part of the intent piece. And then about competence, which is that it\u2019s not enough for me to like you. It\u2019s not enough for me to think you\u2019re a good person. It\u2019s not even enough for me to think you have my intention, that\u2019s your heart, or the company\u2019s intention. You actually have to be able to do good work. If you\u2019ve delivered late on stuff, if you\u2019ve underperformed in the past, if you\u2019ve never been a CEO before, then maybe I\u2019m not going to trust you as much. And so I think that, back to the question or this idea that you pointed out of trust is not charisma. It\u2019s because it\u2019s about, like you were saying, it\u2019s about integrity, it\u2019s about intent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then it\u2019s also about showing that you can do the stuff, and we don\u2019t separate that when we think about trust as leaders.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>We throw around the word \u201ctrust\u201d. I did for a long time without actually explaining what it means and knowing what it means. And it becomes this emotional weapon like, \u201cI don\u2019t trust\u00a0you.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes, very true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ryan: And that\u2019s a terrible thing. What I found is it was effective for me to say, \u201cI\u2019m a new leader for you. I\u2019m a new manager for you.\u201d For instance, I want to build trust with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I don\u2019t actually expect you to trust me just because I\u2019m your boss. I need to earn\u00a0it.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes. It\u2019s earned, it\u2019s built, exactly. I absolutely loved that. I think we take for granted that just because we are in a company, just because I have this title and you have this title, we are supposed to trust each other, and for new managers in particular, that idea that that trust needs to be built for new employees as well&nbsp;,ut that\u2019s something that needs to be cultivated I think is so, so important. Another thing that you talked about is just the difference that focusing on this has made in two ways. So in how you sort of run the company, talked about over communication. So I would love to hear a little bit more about what does that look like for an 80-person company? Very tactically, do your execs sort of hate it, like are people on board with it? And then second, on an interpersonal level of how, like you\u2019re saying, it\u2019s actually made this one particular working relationship a lot more pleasant and not as intimidating for this new person. Tell me about this over-communication part though first.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, totally. So what we do is we created something called a two-year vision, and we as an executive team, we decided what is the most important thing we need to accomplish in the next two years. And then we broke it down into measurable goals. Okay, what by when? And then we laid it out in this beautiful poster, and we called it our two-year vision, and it\u2019s completing on January 1st, 2020. So that was, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s get the plan straight in our head.\u201d And then what it was is not just kind of launching it to everybody because again, that causes fear, that causes confusion. We actually just kind of start looping people in. It\u2019s not like a back channel thing. It\u2019s more, \u201cIf I have direct reports I\u2019m going to start talking about in my one on ones, just want to put this under your radar.\u201dMe and the execs are thinking about launching a two-year vision. This is the way we\u2019re kind of thinking about it. Do you have any thoughts on that?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you\u2019re getting people used to ideas, and then give them chance to get feedback, and then that flows down through the company. Like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re going to launch this thing called a two-year vision,\u201d \u201cYeah, I\u2019ve kind of heard about it. I\u2019ve talked a little bit about it to my manager.\u201d So by the time it comes out, you\u2019re like,\u201d I already kind of know about this,\u201d \u201cYeah, this is kinda cool.\u201d And maybe I even said something that got kind of input into it. So that\u2019s part of it. Over-communicate as you\u2019re thinking about things is great, and that\u2019s not always possible, but on a lot of things it is. And then that\u2019s one thing. I underestimated the value of telling people to be aware that things are gonna happen. Massive value.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I have to pause on that for a second, Ryan, because I can\u2019t tell you how many leaders that we work with and that I speak to, how many CEOs who they talk about the value of over-communication, but it\u2019s almost like, \u201cHere\u2019s the plan. We\u2019re just gonna take the script and just sort of repeat it as much as possible.\u201d And what you\u2019re saying is, well, no, there\u2019s actually a step before that which is to sort of slowly get people to buy in, and it may seem like it takes more time, but you\u2019re actually building trust by slowly unpacking and getting people\u2019s ideas and kind of germinating the idea before it actually becomes a thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/3824b-12buuz1bxuxcsnu713phfhq.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yes, and it does. It probably takes two more weeks to kind of roll that out and get people talking about it. But it turns out you weren\u2019t going to do anything in two weeks anyway, like that really changed anything anyway. So actually, that\u2019s the thing that we\u2019re going to do in a year. In the next two weeks, not much is going to happen. That\u2019s okay. So the kind of pre-talk is important. And then what we do now is every month, we have an all hands meeting where a distributing company, so we use Zoom for that. Se do have offices, so we have about 30 people on Portland, about 15, I think, in Orlando. Everyone else works from home around the United States. So we have a Zoom call and every month, we say, \u201cLet\u2019s talk about the two year vision. We\u2019re actually going to remind you what it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we go through the slides. I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, our mission is this, this is the two-year vision, okay, these are the big numbers. Okay. Let\u2019s talk about each number, how are we doing?\u201d And then we update how we\u2019re doing on the number. And it turns out we actually had to change some of the numbers, and everyone might think, \u201cOh, that\u2019s terrible.\u201d You should never change your numbers if you got, It\u2019s like, \u201cNo, that\u2019s not true because we learned some stuff and it turns out some of our numbers were wrong.\u201d But then that was the process. Like, \u201cOkay, how do you not freak people out when you have to change your plan?. So that was again, \u201cLet\u2019s tell everybody slowly,\u201d and so at the all hands, we would say things like, \u201cWell, here\u2019s the chart we\u2019ve been showing you, but actually, here\u2019s an interesting chart that we\u2019ve been thinking about measuring it this way. We just want to show everybody kind of how we\u2019re thinking about it. We\u2019re not changing the official number yet, but we just want you to know, like we\u2019re learning some stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: We\u2019re starting to think about just different ways.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, we\u2019re learning and here\u2019s what we\u2019re learning. And everyone\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019re learning stuff.\u201d And then we did that for two or three months. And then eventually we\u2019re like, \u201cOkay, we\u2019ve been talking about this for two or three months. We\u2019re just going to make it official now, and everyone\u2019s like, \u201cGreat,\u201d and it\u2019s so crazy, Claire, there\u2019s no drama. I was like, \u201cOh, there\u2019s going to be drama.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yeah, I was waiting for that, Ryan. I was waiting for you to be like, \u201cOkay, and so we did this,\u201d And then, but you\u2019re like, \u201cNo, no drama. It\u2019s easy.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: It was like, \u201cIs there any questions?\u201d Everyone\u2019s like, \u201cNot really. We get it.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cGood, we\u2019re over-communicating.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yeah, mission accomplished. I love that. So it\u2019s like two processes of the pre-talk part that you\u2019re saying, and then again, just about to make it seem sort of slowing it down, revealing your process, that makes so much sense. I think, go for it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: I was just gonna say we\u2019re not perfect either, so it sounds perfect, but I just found out in a one-on-one that I hadn\u2019t been communicating something enough. It\u2019s like, \u201cOh gosh, I thought I was, but I wasn\u2019t.\u201d So it\u2019s a constant process of trying to get better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Always, but what\u2019s really interesting, even about that situation, is that someone told you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah, that\u2019s good.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: That\u2019s amazing because what happens nine times out of 10, at least with the CEOs that we talked to is that no one tells them that they should have been communicating something more. So the fact that you even have a system for someone to tell you that, I think that\u2019s the ideal situation because yeah, we all don\u2019t know sort of how well we\u2019re doing on that, on those levers. So here\u2019s my sort of last question to you here, Ryan, which is for leaders and managers and aspiring leaders who are watching this, and who are thinking, \u201cYes, Ryan, in your wonderful company at Treehouse, you\u2019ve been able to build trust, but man, you don\u2019t have my manager or you don\u2019t work with my team, or you don\u2019t understand what my work environment is like. I\u2019m skeptical about this trust thing. Do you have any advice, tactics, words, wisdom, around why this stuff is important, and maybe steps that they can take to sort of build trust with their employees or their team?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yes, you bet. That\u2019s a great question. I would say if you\u2019re a manager, I\u2019ll give two answers. One from a manager\u2019s point of view, one for a direct.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/2e7a9-13xbbyra-w8htud4m9gwvka.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>I would say for the manager, you could always say, \u201cHey team, hey person I manage, I don\u2019t know if we\u2019ve built a lot of trust, and I just want to talk about it and I actually want to be intentional about building trust. I want to have a great working relationship with you. So here\u2019s a process I\u2019m thinking about going through with you. Here\u2019s how it works, are you interested in that?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And that would be basically running through the behaviors of trust in the&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/SPEED-TRUST-Thing-Changes-Everything\/dp\/1416549005\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Speed of Trust<\/a>&nbsp;book. So that\u2019s one thing, and most employers would be like, \u201cYeah, that sounds great.\u201d If you are managed by a poor manager, I would start from a place where you try to have good, just believe that this person is coming from a good place. So say I\u2019m going to choose to believe that your intentions are good&nbsp;,and this is kind of part of the trust exercise. Like I\u2019m going to start there even though I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s the truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then sit down with them in your one-on-one if you have one-on-ones and say, \u201cI want to build an even better relationship with you. I want to help the company achieve its goals. I know you want those things too. I\u2019d like to be more intentional about building even more trust with you.\u201d So you\u2019re not going to say, \u201cWe don\u2019t have any trust, and it\u2019s totally terrible. I want to create trust,\u201d as they may be like, \u201cOh, I hate that,\u201d and if they\u2019re a bad manager, they\u2019ll fire you. So it\u2019s about, \u201cI want to build more trust, I want to be more effective,\u201d kind of selling that idea, and then say, \u201cI\u2019m reading this book called&nbsp;<em>Speed of Trust<\/em>. Would you be interested reading with me?\u201d And then you\u2019ll probably find this person\u2019s like, \u201cOh my gosh, I wasn\u2019t trained on how to be a good manager. It\u2019s blowing my mind,\u201d and then they become a better manager, and then the process spreads throughout the company. So start with one person, and see if you can get it kicked off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely, and start with the conversation and what I think is important to highlight here is start with your intent. Start with your intentions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: Yeah. \u201cMy intention is to build more trust with you. I want that to happen.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Exactly. It\u2019s not about anything else. Well Ryan, thank you so much for sharing all your thoughts and experience, and reminding us what trust is, and what we need to be doing about it as leaders. So thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ryan<\/strong>: You\u2019re welcome. It\u2019s really fun to talk about. Appreciate your time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Likewise. Talk soon. Thanks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/fe5c2-14xubhljncdthymmvbmjwma.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"newsletter-post-form-container\">\n  <h3>Never miss a post \u2013&nbsp;get our latest leadership insights, as they&#8217;re released&#8230;<\/h3>\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/newsletter.canopy.is\/embed\" width=\"850\" height=\"150\" style=\"border:1px solid #EEE; background:white;\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<br\/>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As the founder of a company that\u2019s helped 850,000 people learn to code, Ryan talks about the value of trust as a leader\u200a. Every two weeks as part of&nbsp;The Heartbeat&nbsp;, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect. This week, I interviewed&nbsp;Ryan Carson, Founder and CEO of&nbsp;Treehouse. Watch &amp; read&hellip; <\/p>\n<p><a class=\"moretag\" href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse\/\">Read the full article<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":225,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/chtbl.com\/track\/D44D5\/https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/ryan-carson.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"24:37","filesize":"22.54M","date_recorded":"13-09-2018","explicit":"","block":"","itunes_episode_number":"26","itunes_title":"Interview with Ryan Carson, Founder + CEO of Treehouse","itunes_season_number":"","itunes_episode_type":"full","filesize_raw":"23631829"},"tags":[],"series":[3529],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/fe5c2-14xubhljncdthymmvbmjwma.png","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-content\/plugins\/seriously-simple-podcasting\/assets\/images\/no-album-art.png","download_link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-download\/1522\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse.mp3","player_link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1522\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse.mp3","audio_player":"<!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1522-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1522\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1522\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse.mp3\">https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1522\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse.mp3<\/a><\/audio>","episode_data":{"playerMode":"dark","subscribeUrls":[],"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/the-heartbeat","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"CLJi9iHXYY\"><a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse\/\">Episode 26: Interview with Ryan Carson, Founder + CEO of Treehouse<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-26-interview-with-ryan-carson-founder-ceo-of-treehouse\/embed\/#?secret=CLJi9iHXYY\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Episode 26: Interview with Ryan Carson, Founder + CEO of Treehouse&#8221; &#8212; Canopy | Blog\" data-secret=\"CLJi9iHXYY\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script type=\"text\/javascript\">\n\/* <![CDATA[ *\/\n\/*! 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Lew","author_link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/author\/claire\/"},"rttpg_comment":0,"rttpg_category":false,"rttpg_excerpt":"As the founder of a company that\u2019s helped 850,000 people learn to code, Ryan talks about the value of trust as a leader\u200a. Every two weeks as part of&nbsp;The Heartbeat&nbsp;, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect. This week, I interviewed&nbsp;Ryan Carson, Founder and CEO of&nbsp;Treehouse. Watch &amp; read&hellip;&hellip;","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast\/1522"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/podcast"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/podcast"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1522"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/225"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1522"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1522"},{"taxonomy":"series","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/series?post=1522"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}