{"id":1516,"date":"2019-01-26T00:31:19","date_gmt":"2019-01-26T00:31:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=1516"},"modified":"2025-04-21T15:05:52","modified_gmt":"2025-04-21T22:05:52","slug":"episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 24: Interview with Hiten Shah, Founder of KISSmetrics, CrazyEgg, FYI and Product Habits"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe width=\"1400\" height=\"788\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/4TEGmuFQsOg?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-as-the-founder-of-multiple-successful-saas-companies-hiten-shares-the-pitfalls-of-being-too-nice-as-a-leader\">As the founder of multiple successful SaaS companies, Hiten shares the pitfalls of being too nice as a leader. <\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Every few weeks as part of&nbsp;<\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/theheartbeat.news\/\"><em>The <\/em><\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/podcast\"><em>Heartbeat<\/em><\/a><em>, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect about their biggest leadership lesson learned. This week, I interviewed&nbsp;<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/amix3k\/\"><em>Amir Salihefendi\u0107<\/em><\/a><em>&nbsp;is the founder and CEO of&nbsp;<\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/doist.com\/\"><em>Doist.\ufeff<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hnshah\">Hiten Shah<\/a>&nbsp;is the founder of numerous successful SaaS companies, including&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kissmetricshq.com\/\">KISSmetrics<\/a>,&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crazyegg.com\/\">CrazyEgg<\/a>and now&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/usefyi.com\/\">FYI<\/a>&nbsp;and&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/producthabits.com\/\">Product Habits<\/a>. In our interview, he shares the pitfalls of being too nice as a leader and the importance of the word \u201coutcome.\u201d (And yes, he is in his car while filming this!)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/twitter.com\/clairejlew\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Claire Lew\u00a0<\/a>and I\u2019m the CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/?utm_source=blog&amp;utm_medium=post&amp;utm_campaign=heartbeat-podcast\">Canopy<\/a> (formerly Know Your Team\/Know Your Company) and I am super excited to have with me today\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/hnshah\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Hiten Shah<\/a>, who many of you I\u2019m sure are familiar of. Hiten is an amazing entrepreneur who\u2019s founded a lot of software company, whether he was the founder of\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.crazyegg.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">CrazyEgg<\/a>\u00a0or\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.kissmetricshq.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">KISSmetrics<\/a>, and is now working on two different startups and products. One is\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/producthabits.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Product Habits<\/a>and then the other is\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/usefyi.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">FYI<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hiten and I, we met, I think, a few years ago, maybe at a conference. I\u2019ve always been a real big fan of your work and excited to ask you this one question about leadership.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Yeah, I think we met at MicroConf, if I\u2019m not mistaken.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I think you\u2019re right, too. Yep. I think it was a couple of years ago in Vegas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Yeah. I\u2019m excited to answer the question and I don\u2019t know what it is yet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/87151-1sbdnyu2lzig49l-lbjxgbg.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: And I love, also, that you\u2019re calling from a car. You are the first person I\u2019ve interviewed to be calling from a car. Which you clarified, though, you are not driving.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: I am happy to take that claim. No, not yet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Here\u2019s the question. What\u2019s one thing you wish you would\u2019ve learned earlier as a leader?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Oh wow. What\u2019s one thing I wish I would\u2019ve learned earlier\u2026.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>This question\u2019s interesting because, I think when you ask it, I can have a recency bias and say, \u201cOh. One thing I\u2019m dealing with now that I wish I had known earlier.\u201d But I don\u2019t think that that would be appropriate. So I\u2019m gonna need a couple seconds to think \u2019cause it\u2019s a good question.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019ve been I guess doing this for a really long time, and I think I\u2019m not very good at it, to be honest. So I would say that I\u2019m just looking to get better all the time at being a leader, whatever that means.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that the one thing that I feel I wish I would\u2019ve understood and knew previously, much earlier, and I wish someone would\u2019ve told me or even if they did maybe I wouldn\u2019t have listened. But I think the big thing is as a leader, as a person who\u2019s responsible for other people\u200a\u2014\u200aso that\u2019s what I would call a leader in some capacity, just to give it a definition. In the past, I was so very focused on being a nice person, and I recently, and this is another recency bias but I think this was really important for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I shouldn\u2019t be necessarily interested in being a nice person and looking to be nice to everyone that works on the team. And I don\u2019t mean that I would be mean, because you would think that\u2019s the opposite. But I want to be objective. I want to be accurate. I want to be honest. And I think a lot of times, and especially this applies to founders I\u2019ve met, they\u2019re nice people, and that prevents them from being honest. That\u2019s the aspect I\u2019m constantly putting myself in check. Am I just being nice? Or am I actually being\u00a0honest?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: And there\u2019s a nice way to be honest. But, I think when we think about honesty and being nice, I don\u2019t think they\u2019re related. I think that they aren\u2019t instantly you\u2019re like, \u201cOh you could be honest and nice.\u201d I think a lot of people believe that if you\u2019re gonna be direct and you\u2019re gonna be objective and work with people and give them feedback and talk about mistakes and problems and how to get better. It\u2019s hard to be nice and honest at the same time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely, no totally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: To be honest about it, and I think there\u2019s a big difference between being nice and being honest. Going forward, one of my goals for myself is to not worry about being nice, but be more focused on being honest first in a nice way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: When did you realize this, Hiten? So, did you get burned by a situation? Is this a pattern that you sort of accumulated over time? Do you feel like there were some sort of big wake up calls where you were like \u201cWhoa, maybe if I focused more on being honest versus nice, we wouldn\u2019t be in this situation\u201d or \u201cI would\u2019ve let this person go earlier\u201d et cetera, et cetera?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: I think I\u2019ve made that mistake too many times of not letting somebody go earlier and it\u2019s because I wasn\u2019t willing to be honest with them. Instead, we would, you know, people would have discussions about them when they weren\u2019t in the room. We\u2019re a remote team but it\u2019s still the same analogy. And once that happens more than a couple times\u200a\u2014\u200aa handful is too much, and it usually happens a lot more \u2013 there\u2019s something you need to do, and usually what that means is you need to go talk to that person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: And I think that there\u2019s a level of toxic culture that develops when you don\u2019t do that that\u2019s hard to see, especially on a remote team.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes. Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/8745a-1upwsyk5uov_fc1nsbyjvkg.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: So, I spent so much time making people on the team feel like I\u2019m nice, just like I would make somebody who I\u2019m advising or a friend or anybody who\u2019s more of an acquaintance or what have you, and then I should be nice. Yeah, there\u2019s really nothing at stake there in those relationships in that way. And the funny thing for me is I was way more honest with those people than I tended to be with people on my team. Because if you ask around about me, when I give advice to people&nbsp;<em>not<\/em>&nbsp;on my team, I\u2019m very honest with them because I want to do what\u2019s best for them. I don\u2019t have more than a meeting or two usually and I\u2019m trying be helpful and being honest is the best way to be helpful to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>While on the team, these are long-term relationships, most of the ones I have- or they should be, or they want to or are going to be if we\u2019ve done our job right in hiring people and having them join the team. And I feel like honesty is way more important in those situations. I don\u2019t want to be perceived as a nice person necessarily\u200a\u2014\u200aI\u2019d rather be perceived as someone who is very honest and direct and wants to help people get better through that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: And I personally struggle with it. I\u2019m not sure how that relates to anybody else and their experience necessarily, but your question was a good one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yeah, yeah. Well, to that point, so this is something that has come up a lot in leaders that we talk to and we work with. We run this online leadership community where we have over almost 1,000 leaders talking and chatting about their different problems and concerns and one of the things that people bring up a lot of the times is, \u201cClaire, I have trouble giving feedback\u201d or \u201cEveryone knows me as the nice guy, so how do I go from being the nice guy to being the honest person?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And when I used to do consulting work, prior to running Canopy, one of the biggest trends that I would find in organizations and teams was what I called a \u201cculture of nice\u201d and how do you\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourcompany.com\/kill-the-culture-of-nice-8a237752499c\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">kill a culture of nice<\/a>? So it\u2019s even when the entire team starts to embody this whole like, \u201cOh, good job. Smiley face. Pat each other on the back\u201d and then like \u201cHmm, do we bring up this mistake? How do we talk about things openly if all we do all day is sort of like, smile and nod our heads and agree with each other all the time?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So to your question of \u201cAre other people facing this?\u201d \u2013 absolutely. My question always is, \u201cWhy?\u201d So why is it so hard for people, \u2018cause I like being nice, trust me. I\u2019m a pretty smiley person, I like to think I\u2019m a kind person. I know what you\u2019re talking about, Hiten.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So why is it so hard for us people who self-identify as \u201cnice people\u201d to realize that maybe that\u2019s not always the most productive path or that it\u2019s possible to be both nice and honest. And I\u2019ll throw something out there just to sort of poke at both of us here, which is: Is it because we want to be liked? Is it because we care a lot about what people think about us and just want to be liked by people we have worked with for a long time? What\u2019s going on here? Versus say, outsiders, like we don\u2019t really care if they like us or not, but like our team, we kind of really want them to like us. Is that it? I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/74e2e-1xaw4fl8c2jcjzox6ibxt_w.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Well, if people like you, they want to be around you. Sio f people like you, they want to stay in your company.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I think there\u2019s a basic human nature of \u201cI have to deal with this person all the time. It should be a pleasant experience for every\u00a0time.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Now, you can apply that to your partnership, your life partnership, or if you\u2019re married, your marriage, whatever have you, because yeah, that should be pleasant to each other. I think that\u2019s important. I think it\u2019s important to get through conflict. A lot of people call some of these relationships at work- whether it\u2019s co-founders or other things \u201cmarriages\u201d and I\u2019ve come to terms with that it\u2019s not the same. And the reason I think that it\u2019s not the same and the reason I went from nice to more focused on being honest, which takes time to develop, I think, is that in a business, because we\u2019re talking about a business here, there\u2019s outcomes. There\u2019s outcomes, there\u2019s things we\u2019re looking to accomplish. So our basis isn\u2019t \u201cwe have a family\u201d or \u201cthere\u2019s two of us and we\u2019re partners and like that\u2019s just how it is\u201d\u200a\u2014\u200athis is outcomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>There\u2019s a third factor. It\u2019s not just about me and you, or me and the team, or us as a team, if we\u2019re a team there\u2019s outcomes. So if you think about if we\u2019re being nice, we might forget the outcome because we\u2019re just being nice to each\u00a0other.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: So, to me, the outcome changes construct relationship and we tend to treat our relationships at work the same as our personal relationships, if we\u2019re nice people or want to be perceived as nice when, truthfully, we have outcomes we want to reach and every single individual on the team is responsible for things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>If you\u2019re not honest with them about their responsibilities and expectations and things like that, I think you end up in a place where you\u2019re gonna reach those outcomes that you want for the business. Which is good for everyone!<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I completely agree. Amen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: So it\u2019s kind of messed up to be nice and not honest and then not get to your outcome, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: No, absolutely. I think your point about a lot of folks in start-ups or business or leaders conflating family relationships or personal relationships with business relationships, I\u2019ve always thought that was actually a mess. I hate it when founders talk about how, \u201cOh, my team is my family!\u201d It\u2019s like, \u201cReally, though? Because the purpose of your family is not to accomplish this goal to create a better outcome in the world or create impact or create revenue or whatever your goals are. Like your family doesn\u2019t have business goals, your team does.\u201d And the whole point of an organization is to actually accomplish something. It\u2019s not actually about just making sure everyone feels good, because if everyone feels good then you\u2019re actually not accomplishing anything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s actually even why I hate the buzzword \u201cemployee engagement\u201d \u2019cause it\u2019s this idea that everyone just needs to be engaged. It\u2019s like, \u201cYeah, when people feel good about their work then they\u2019re going to do better work.\u201d But are they gonna feel like that all the time? No. And is it- should the focus be on just having people feel good without any concern about if the actual goals are being accomplished? No. And so I think you\u2019re absolutely right. It\u2019s almost this over-reliance on thinking that everyone just needs to feel good and that\u2019s what gonna- and that\u2019s sort of the outcome, when obviously there\u2019s very different outcomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, question for you, then, Hiten. Last thing here before you go. For perspective founders or current founders and leaders who are watching this and who have been nodding their heads going, \u201cYes, Hiten, I\u2019m with you. I\u2019m the nice gal- or I\u2019m the nice guy- in the organization\u201d and it sounds like you\u2019re working on this- what advice to you have for them? Is there anything you\u2019re sort of consciously thinking about or doing or talking to folks about just to make sure you are more honest than you are nice?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/bef36-1tyumphfbf7v7gezr59tc4g.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: I think one of the most powerful tools is the ability to reflect and do the equivalent of a postmortem in as many areas in your business as possible. And that\u2019s almost sterile, tactical tip, but to me those reflections, those postmortems, those \u201cHow did we actually do? We did that, what happened? How did we do? Can we get better? How can we get better?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>All of those things are super important in being able to ask and asking people, \u2019cause they won\u2019t really tell you \u2019cause it\u2019s a form of feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions, I would say, but it\u2019s also one of the hardest things to get out of\u00a0people.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>So repeatedly asking for it, repeatedly to find a way to get it on specific things, like just the other day, I asked a team member, \u201cHey, you\u2019re really good at process improvements. You\u2019ve joined the team in the last month and a half and I would like you to almost be that cop. Like, \u2018Hey, we\u2019re screwing up here\u2019 or like tell us where we can do better on process.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of the things that I\u2019m working on, process is what\u2019s required because we\u2019re going from an early stage to a more scale-able, repeatable execution. And this person was brought in mostly because he\u2019s very good at that, but if I don\u2019t ask him- the team doesn\u2019t ask him\u200a\u2014\u200ahe\u2019s not gonna mention it. It almost needs to get annoying to the point where I\u2019m asking him and annoying him and I\u2019m always at it like, \u201cHey we can do this better. Oh, this isn\u2019t right, right?\u201d Things like that. So, that\u2019s another aspect of what I mean, because that\u2019s almost a reflection. It\u2019s like, \u201cHelp us reflect on something we suck at today. You\u2019re good at it. You\u2019re great at it.\u201d So whoever\u2019s great at something, make them be the cop, so to speak.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I think the third one is this word \u201coutcome\u201d is not used enough, in my opinion. And outcome isn\u2019t just about your business, it\u2019s also like, if you wanna be nice to somebody, if you wanna be honestly nice, talk about what their outcomes are. \u201cWhat\u2019re you looking to accomplish for the business? What\u2019re you looking to accomplish for yourself? And how can I and the business help you get\u00a0there?\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>And sometimes people don\u2019t know what that is when you ask them, \u201cHow can I help you get what you want in life?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Exactly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Because you\u2019re working here to get what you want in life. You\u2019re not just working here to work here and accomplish what we want to work on as a team. There\u2019s something you want in your life and I don\u2019t really care what it is in the sense of not telling me, or it being private, or whatever. Tell me and I can help you get it. And that\u2019s an outcome, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes, absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Then you\u2019re being honest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes.Absolutely. There\u2019s this book called&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Organization\/dp\/0385517254\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">The Fifth Discipline<\/a>&nbsp;that talks about this and the word that the author, Peter Senge, uses to describe it is, he uses \u201cvision.\u201d So, that picture of a better place, like \u201cif everything goes well, this is where we wanna be.\u201d It\u2019s vision and then the team obviously has a vision for where they want to be. You\u2019ve got your current reality and your vision, but everyone also has a personal vision, and the role of the leader is to actually take those personal visions and somehow align it to that bigger vision. But you\u2019ve gotta know what those personal visions are. You\u2019ve gotta know what the personal outcomes that people desire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Hiten<\/strong>: Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I\u2019m so in line with that, Hiten, and appreciate so much all your insights. I know all those watching\u200a\u2014\u200aat least folks who consider themselves nice\u200a\u2014\u200acan relate and have found your thoughts helpful. Thanks so much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/7812f-1bu4eyzzwf9ufrtl6vnj1uq.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"newsletter-post-form-container\">\n  <h3>Never miss a post \u2013&nbsp;get our latest leadership insights, as they&#8217;re released&#8230;<\/h3>\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/newsletter.canopy.is\/embed\" width=\"850\" height=\"150\" style=\"border:1px solid #EEE; background:white;\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<br\/>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><a href=\"http:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/?utm_source=blog&amp;utm_medium=banner&amp;utm_content=footer\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"2516\" height=\"944\" src=\"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/02\/CleanShot-2023-02-09-at-19.36.32@2x.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-7971\"\/><\/a><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As the founder of multiple successful SaaS companies, Hiten shares the pitfalls of being too nice as a leader. Every few weeks as part of&nbsp;The Heartbeat, I asks one question to a founder, CEO, or business owner I respect about their biggest leadership lesson learned. This week, I interviewed&nbsp;Amir Salihefendi\u0107&nbsp;is the founder and CEO of&nbsp;Doist.\ufeff&hellip; <\/p>\n<p><a class=\"moretag\" href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits\/\">Read the full article<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":303,"menu_order":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"episode_type":"audio","audio_file":"https:\/\/chtbl.com\/track\/D44D5\/https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/hiten-shah.mp3","cover_image":"","cover_image_id":"","duration":"15:36","filesize":"14.28M","date_recorded":"31-07-2018","explicit":"","block":"","itunes_episode_number":"24","itunes_title":"Interview with Hiten Shah, Founder of KISSmetrics, CrazyEgg, FYI and Product Habits","itunes_season_number":"","itunes_episode_type":"full","filesize_raw":"14975476"},"tags":[],"series":[3529],"episode_featured_image":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/87151-1sbdnyu2lzig49l-lbjxgbg.png","episode_player_image":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/wp-content\/plugins\/seriously-simple-podcasting\/assets\/images\/no-album-art.png","download_link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-download\/1516\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits.mp3","player_link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1516\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits.mp3","audio_player":"<!--[if lt IE 9]><script>document.createElement('audio');<\/script><![endif]-->\n<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-1516-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1516\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1516\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits.mp3\">https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast-player\/1516\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits.mp3<\/a><\/audio>","episode_data":{"playerMode":"dark","subscribeUrls":[],"rssFeedUrl":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/feed\/podcast\/the-heartbeat","embedCode":"<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\" data-secret=\"Ol9ifAqyQQ\"><a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits\/\">Episode 24: Interview with Hiten Shah, Founder of KISSmetrics, CrazyEgg, FYI and Product Habits<\/a><\/blockquote><iframe sandbox=\"allow-scripts\" security=\"restricted\" src=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-24-interview-with-hiten-shah-founder-of-kissmetrics-crazyegg-fyi-and-product-habits\/embed\/#?secret=Ol9ifAqyQQ\" width=\"500\" height=\"350\" title=\"&#8220;Episode 24: Interview with Hiten Shah, Founder of KISSmetrics, CrazyEgg, FYI and Product Habits&#8221; &#8212; Canopy | Blog\" data-secret=\"Ol9ifAqyQQ\" frameborder=\"0\" marginwidth=\"0\" marginheight=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><\/iframe><script type=\"text\/javascript\">\n\/* <![CDATA[ *\/\n\/*! 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