{"id":1483,"date":"2019-01-25T23:17:37","date_gmt":"2019-01-25T23:17:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/knowyourteam.com\/blog\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=1483"},"modified":"2025-04-21T15:13:46","modified_gmt":"2025-04-21T22:13:46","slug":"episode-13-interview-with-amy-gallo-contributing-editor-at-harvard-business-review","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/canopy.is\/blog\/podcast\/episode-13-interview-with-amy-gallo-contributing-editor-at-harvard-business-review\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 13: Interview with Amy Gallo, Contributing Editor at Harvard Business Review"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe width=\"1400\" height=\"788\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/-yZi2WwIXnQ?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-as-a-prominent-expert-who-wrote-the-book-on-workplace-conflict-literally-amy-shares-her-biggest-leadership-lessons-learned-on-healthy-work-relationships-and-working-with-conflict\">As a prominent expert who wrote the book on workplace conflict (literally), Amy shares her biggest leadership lessons learned on healthy work relationships and working with conflict.<\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/amyegallo\">Amy Gallo<\/a>&nbsp;is a Contributing Editor at&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/hbr.org\/\">Harvard Business <g class=\"gr_ gr_4 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-del replaceWithoutSep\" id=\"4\" data-gr-id=\"4\"><g class=\"gr_ gr_4 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_run_anim Punctuation only-del replaceWithoutSep\" id=\"4\" data-gr-id=\"4\">Review<\/g><\/g><\/a><g class=\"gr_ gr_4 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Punctuation only-del replaceWithoutSep\" id=\"4\" data-gr-id=\"4\"><g class=\"gr_ gr_4 gr-alert gr_gramm gr_inline_cards gr_disable_anim_appear Punctuation only-del replaceWithoutSep\" id=\"4\" data-gr-id=\"4\">,<\/g><\/g> and the author of the&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/hbr.org\/product\/hbr-guide-to-dealing-with-conflict\/10068-PBK-ENG\">HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire Lew<\/strong>: Hi, everyone. My name is\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/twitter.com\/cjlew23\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Claire Lew<\/a>, and I\u2019m the CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/canopy.is\/?utm_source=blog&amp;utm_medium=post&amp;utm_campaign=heartbeat-podcast\">Canopy<\/a> (formerly Know Your Team\/Know Your Company). Today, I have a really special guest with me. I have\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.amyegallo.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Amy Gallo<\/a>, who is the Contributing Editor for\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/hbr.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Harvard Business Review<\/a>, which, let\u2019s admit it, all of us, including myself, read all the time hoping to become a better leader. It\u2019s where I, personally, have learned a lot.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Amy, in particular, is an absolute expert on conflict management and resolution. She\u2019s actually written the&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/hbr.org\/product\/hbr-guide-to-dealing-with-conflict\/10068-PBK-ENG\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict<\/a>. I actually have it, and I highly recommend you pick it up if you don\u2019t. It\u2019s a real honor and treat to have Amy here today, and I\u2019m gonna ask her this one question about leadership.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy Gallo<\/strong>: I\u2019m ready. Thanks for having me, Claire.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely. Amy, my question for you that I\u2019ve been asking folks, is what\u2019s something you wish you would\u2019ve learned earlier as a leader?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/27ef8-1rmnyxatuh5pyrvwaxp1rma.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: I have two things that I wanted to share. One of which is, first, the thing I really didn\u2019t know early in my career, which I\u2019ve learned over time, is the importance of relationships at work. I think I came into organizations and business&nbsp;\u2026 I was a management consultant earlier in my career, and I really felt I had my friends and I have people I work with. I was always very boundaried about who I spent time with. I thought work isn\u2019t personal, keep the focus on business, and yet I was also feeling a lot of caring feelings for the people who I worked with. I started to be, like, \u201cThese are people I wanna hang out with more.\u201d I really wasn\u2019t sure how to navigate all that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>I think I wish knew earlier the importance that co-workers as friends in your life, both from just making you feel supported and making work feel fun and exciting, but also from a performance perspective.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>These networks that we build, these genuine relationships we build, are incredibly important to our performance and how we get work done. I mean not in a mercenary, I\u2019ll scratch your back, you scratch my back way, but it\u2019s how we gather information. It\u2019s how different parts of the organization work. It\u2019s how we make sense of the work that we need to do. It also gives us some meaning in the work we do. It\u2019s much more fun for me to write an article for an editor that I consider a friend than an editor who I just consider a straight-up co-worker. It gives meat to the work, so I wish I had known early on how important those relationships were and how much effort they took and how it could have been a real conscious decision to build and foster those relationships earlier on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Definitely. I know you have a second one, too, so I wanna get to the second thing you wish you would have learned earlier. But I find that so interesting, Amy, because I think a lot of times as leaders&nbsp;\u2026 In fact, I remember having a very specific conversation with a friend of mine who\u2019s a CEO, and she said, \u201cClaire, it\u2019s so weird.\u201d She\u2019s like, \u201cI can\u2019t just get beers with my employees after work. It\u2019s different.\u201d And she\u2019s, like, \u201cI don\u2019t really know how to navigate this sort of new place that I\u2019m in as the CEO and as the co-owner of the business.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I\u2019m curious\u2026 What do you think for you and for others first causes that resistance as a leader to wanting to establish those relationships? Why do we sort of pull back?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy:&nbsp;<\/strong>I think there\u2019s a couple of things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>There are risks, of course, to having relationships at work. There\u2019s a risk that you will overstep boundaries. There\u2019s a risk that your friendship won\u2019t work out and it\u2019ll affect your work. There\u2019s a risk that something will happen with the work that will affect your friendship. I think, especially as a leader, being friends with the people you manage can be really challenging.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>You have a lot of control over their well-being, over their ability to make a living, everything from where they take a vacation to what kind of projects they get, when they can leave the office during the day. You make a lot of decisions for these people and when you\u2019re a friend, I think you worry that your judgment is going to be clouded.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>My argument for why you should get over those risks is that you\u2019re going to care about these people, whether you try to put up those boundaries or not. It\u2019s very possible to have friendships with whom you have boundaries. Even in personal relationships, you have boundaries. It\u2019s not seventh grade anymore. You\u2019re not spending time on the phone with them from 6:00 at night till 2:00 in the morning&nbsp;\u2026 for you, boundaries that speak for that situation. You have to do the same with your co-workers and your work friends. You set up the boundaries that are appropriate for the situation, but you still have to care about one another, or I should say, you\u2019re going to care about another if you spend that much time together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>If you\u2019re doing the work that\u2019s meaningful to you, you\u2019re gonna bring yourself to that work, and it\u2019s counterproductive to try to say, \u201cOh, no, I can\u2019t have relationships.\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yeah. I think it\u2019s such a good point&nbsp;\u2026 this idea of boundaries and care, and boundaries and relationships, and boundaries and friendship. They\u2019re not mutually exclusive. It\u2019s not either\/or. You can have both. To your point about it being counterproductive to resist relationships: Can you tell me how this might play out in terms of&nbsp;\u2026 Your expertise is around conflict, so if a leader sort of resists wanting to create these relationships, how does that manifest when you have to have a difficult conversation or people aren\u2019t getting along or you need to make a really big decision? I\u2019m curious on your thoughts on that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/e760f-1jnt0wgvvqzal3seqtmoq5g.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Sure. There\u2019s two things when you think about relationships at work. They\u2019re really built on trust and there are a lot of experts who talk about the different components of trust.&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad=rja&amp;uact=8&amp;ved=0ahUKEwj8oc27r8vYAhXs6YMKHZ0GB6gQtwIIJzAA&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ted.com%2Ftalks%2Famy_cuddy_your_body_language_shapes_who_you_are&amp;usg=AOvVaw1RlZqZr2mA4J0zBkG9Tnhi\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Amy Cuddy<\/a>, for example, talks about being warm and you need to be confident, and that\u2019s what\u2019s gonna make someone who works for you trust you. Now that warmth doesn\u2019t necessarily have to be, \u201cHey, let\u2019s go get a beer,\u201d but you have to convey that you care about them, that you have their best interests at heart.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, it may not be the same friendship you have with someone you\u2019ve known since college or someone who you know outside work, but it\u2019s still a friendship. There\u2019s still some caring going on there. You just have to be able to navigate, \u201cOkay, now I\u2019m gonna have these difficult conversations.\u201d The way that benefits you is that really, what I\u2019ve seen in my research on conflict, conflict resolution goes much better when both parties give each other the benefit of the doubt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>You\u2019re much more likely to give someone the benefit of the doubt if you believe they care about you and have your best interests at\u00a0heart.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes. That\u2019s awesome.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: If you really want someone&nbsp;\u2026 if you want someone who works for you to hear your difficult feedback, be willing to take a tough performance review well, be able to hear some news that\u2019s not so great about the decision someone higher up in the organization made, or even you made as the CEO, showing them that you care about them and you considered that in your decision is incredibly important.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely. I think that is an amazing insight you wanna write down. I\u2019ll probably re-watch this video and go, \u201cOh, that was so smart,\u201d which is this idea that the conflict is often rooted in when we don\u2019t give the person the benefit of the doubt. Having empathy, creating that trust, being somewhat of a friend to a person, helps give that benefit of the doubt. I think that\u2019s brilliant and I\u2019m tucking that away in my head, for sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Amy, what\u2019s the second thing that you wish you would have learned earlier, as a leader?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Sure. As a conflict expert, you won\u2019t be surprised it has to do with conflict, which is that I wish I had learned to disagree with my co-workers, with people who work for me, with people who work above me, earlier. I had an experience early in my career as a management consultant. I had a client who I thought as a really difficult person. In reality, I just didn\u2019t agree with her and I didn\u2019t know how to express that. I did a bunch of passive-aggressive things that weren\u2019t really productive. When she finally found out how much I disagreed&nbsp;\u2026 Unfortunately, I sent her an email that I had meant to send to a colleague about everything I thought she was doing wrong \u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Oh, my God.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>:&nbsp;\u2026 which was mortifying. It\u2019s that moment you hit send, and I thought, \u201cOh, my gosh. I\u2019ve just lost this client for our company. I\u2019m probably gonna be fired.\u201d My boss at the time advised to apologize, and I went to talk to her. She said, \u201cWhy didn\u2019t you tell me this before?\u201d I realized at that moment, she wanted me to disagree with her. That\u2019s why she\u2019s hired my company is to give her good advice and that requires disagreeing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think we\u2019ve gotten to a place in so many organizations, and certainly in the U.S., in terms on the political level, where we just look for people who are gonna agree with us, and if we disagree, not doing right by the people we work with, by the clients we serve and certainly by our organization.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Disagreements are a central part of interacting with human beings and it\u2019s a central part of doing good work. If you don\u2019t have the skills and the courage to do that, you\u2019re not doing your job, basically.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely. I think that is&nbsp;\u2026 I\u2019m almost at a loss for words \u2019cause I couldn\u2019t agree more that if we don\u2019t disagree as humans, like you said, we\u2019re not almost doing our jobs, and it is, to your point, such an essential part of how we interact. I feel like for&nbsp;\u2026 Sometimes, and maybe this is a question to ask you&nbsp;\u2026 I sometimes think about why have we gotten to this place, whether it is in politics, whether it is companies or even in relationships, family, otherwise, where we see conflict as bad? What in our heads has caused that to be the case? Is it biological? Is it sort of social, different things in the environment that have happened?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/5ebe5-1jm9_7mof5_ls2-_nuuq08g.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Yeah. You\u2019re right. We\u2019ve come to equate any sort of disagreement with being unkind, which is just simply not true. Often, if you disagree thoughtfully, it can often be the kind thing to do, especially in a work environment. Why we\u2019ve got to this place&nbsp;\u2026 What I observe is that we tend to be really conflict-avoidant. It\u2019s understandable. Conflict is uncomfortable. Having someone disagree with you can feel like a threat, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Yes, yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: If you and I don\u2019t see eye-to-eye on the project plan, I start the question, \u201cAm I gonna get the resources I need? Does she think I\u2019m good at my job? Am I gonna lose my job? Is my identity too wrapped up in this project plan?\u201d It becomes a threat to a lot of things I hold dear, so then our bodies respond with the stress response of when we feel threatened. Disagreeing over the project plan is different than being caught in the middle of a hurricane, and yet our bodies respond similarly. We have to figure out how to notice the difference between, \u201cThis is a minor threat and the disagreement isn\u2019t necessarily gonna hurt our relationship, our job, the project plan,\u201d whatever it is, and get over that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>To be fair, I\u2019m watching you listen to me and you\u2019re nodding, and it feels great. We all love to be agreed\u00a0with.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I\u2019m agreeing with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Exactly. I\u2019m like, \u201cYes, Claire thinks I\u2019m right.\u201d That feels so good. We\u2019re all looking for that endorsement and that validation, but if we constantly seek that approval, which is readily available to us, especially. We\u2019re all going after the likes. We\u2019re all going after the shares. I think it just feeds that desire and we\u2019re not willing to be uncomfortable any longer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: I know. Maybe I should be doing this while you\u2019re talking and promoting the idea of disagreement more, and productive disagreement. \u201cNo, I disagree with you, Amy.\u201d So much of what you\u2019ve touched on is fascinating. One thing that particularly sort of piqued my interest is this idea of disagreeing kindly or that disagreeing with someone can be the kind thing to do. Tell me about that\u2026<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>How do you do that? Because it doesn\u2019t always feel like the kind thing to do. Sometimes I\u2019ve been in a situation where I feel like I\u2019m calling out a team member. I feel like I have to tell someone who is typically performing really well, \u201cHey, you\u2019re not doing this right,\u201d or, \u201cThis came totally out of left field.\u201d Those are hard conversations to have, or, \u201cI disagree with the direction you\u2019re taking this project.\u201d You don\u2019t wanna have the employee leave or get mad at you or be bitter.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So how do you disagree kindly?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/b9f5e-1i4pdpjrwj4txoei-uktriq.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: A couple of things. One, I would say, put yourself in the other person\u2019s shoes. If you and I were working together and you had to give me negative feedback, I want that feedback.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Most of us want to know how we\u2019re performing. If you look all the studies of employees show that they don\u2019t feel like they get enough feedback, both critical and positive. Put yourself in their shoes. Oftentimes, we\u2019re projecting our own discomfort when we\u2019re unwilling to disagree, when the other person actually wants to hear what you have to\u00a0say.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Certainly my client, in the story I shared before, wanted to know what I thought about our project. I unfortunately withheld sharing it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s one thing. The other is, I think, try to separate the personal from the content of the disagreement. Most often at work, we\u2019re disagreeing about an objective or goal of a project, or a process, how we\u2019re gonna make the decision. We quickly associate that with our relationship. \u201cIf she disagrees with the project, she must not think I\u2019m good at my job,\u201d or, \u201cShe must think I\u2019m not capable.\u201d So try to really separate and what you can say to someone when you start to disagree, \u201cThis is about our work and our work relationship. I really enjoy working with you. I think you\u2019re smart and capable. I wanna share a difference of opinion about X.\u201d It\u2019s really a disagreement about our tasks\u200a\u2014\u200areally distinguishing the differences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Also, disagree in a way that engages the other person. What negotiation experts say\u2026 You\u2019re on opposite sides of the table butting heads, but you put the person on the same side of the table as you. \u201cHey, we have a problem we need to solve together. We\u2019re not eye-to-eye on how to do that. Let\u2019s put our heads together and find a new solution that works for everyone.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s really collaborative language that\u2019s kind and thoughtful, but I think it\u2019s really helpful to making disagreement more palatable for people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Another quick tip is to ask for permission. If I\u2019m in a meeting and I\u2019m sharing my project plan and someone just says, \u201cThat\u2019s never gonna work.\u201d That, to me, totally blindsided me. My stress response kicks in. It feels horrible, but if someone says, \u201cHey, can I ask a question?\u201d or, \u201cMind if I just express a different opinion about this?\u201d That gives me that moment to say, \u201cOkay, this is not gonna go the way I thought it was,\u201d allows me to reset and puts me in a receptive mood, so I\u2019m now ready to hear what that person has to say. Oftentimes, just asking permission gives that person a little break to switch their mentality so that they\u2019re more open to hearing your disagreement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Absolutely. I think so much of the other person on the other side of that conversation, who you\u2019re disagreeing with, making sure that they\u2019re in that receptive mode is so key. Because how many of us, very personally speaking, if I\u2019m in a bad mood, if I\u2019m stressed about something, if I\u2019m busy and you ask me something or you disagree, chances are I\u2019m not gonna be as open to hearing that, naturally. Versus if I\u2019m feeling really good about something or I\u2019m relaxed or I don\u2019t really have a lot going on in my head. I think that\u2019s such a key point\u2026 We can purposely, as leaders, sort of create that environment for our employees and make sure they\u2019re in receptive modes instead of just sort of barraging people and saying, \u201cOh, I disagree,\u201d or, \u201cOh, I think that\u2019s a bad idea,\u201d or, \u201cWhy\u2019d you do it that way?\u201d I think that\u2019s so smart, Amy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Yeah. Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Thank you so much for all of your wisdom today. I\u2019m glad this is on video, because I\u2019ll be taking notes. I\u2019m sure a lot of the folks watching learned so much from you, as well. Thanks again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Amy<\/strong>: Thank you, too. I actually enjoyed it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Claire<\/strong>: Awesome.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/blog.knowyourteam.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/12\/fec94-1ces4bd5jexxynlj8_dsl8a.png\" alt=\"\"\/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"newsletter-post-form-container\">\n  <h3>Never miss a post \u2013&nbsp;get our latest leadership insights, as they&#8217;re released&#8230;<\/h3>\n\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/newsletter.canopy.is\/embed\" width=\"850\" height=\"150\" style=\"border:1px solid #EEE; background:white;\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n<br\/>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>As a prominent expert who wrote the book on workplace conflict (literally), Amy shares her biggest leadership lessons learned on healthy work relationships and working with conflict. Amy Gallo&nbsp;is a Contributing Editor at&nbsp;Harvard Business Review, and the author of the&nbsp;HBR Guide to Dealing with Conflict. Claire Lew: Hi, everyone. 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